Curse

Mordakai · Apr 02, 2007, 07:10 PM // 19:10

Shmanka - Read This Please!

High Level Cap will NOT effect PvP!

This is PvE only! (and world vs world)

Thank you.

Lonesamurai · Apr 02, 2007, 07:12 PM // 19:12

Quote:

Originally Posted by Shmanka

The flaw in the power curve itself, even the "slightest" advantage is an advantage. I dont disgress on how important PvP is to alot of the GW community yet I fear a few things.

First there is UAX in GW2, meaning everything is unlocked and if you have a higher level char the odds are in your favor. Which is not the problem in GW1 by rolling a character (I have not heard any confirmation on this yet).

Development in 2 years? You infact sir are correct, yet that is how long they have to shove it on the shelves... do you honestly expect a complete revamp of the game in a few months from now no matter what the community says?
To be honest 2 years is not alot of time for the staff numbers they carry.

Another problem is their reputation from veterans thus far, if they can't keep the original players they first sold the game to interested how are they going to grab new customers? I understand the not playing because of life etc etc, yet if the second completely derives from the first except for this Hall of Monuments alot of vets just won't play it. It's that simple. I am not posting negatively directly to ANet, I am taking a critical review on what all the articles say and what I am concerned about.

In simple words the "flaw" which was posted is such a derivation to the basic system that it loses a customer. No one wants level 150/whatever it may be in order to be "standard" in PvP if it is difficult/ridiculous to obtain. It does not matter HOW much you curve the power gain in higher levels, there is still advantages to be gained.

You miss one thing... in PvE there is no where you can have an advatage as there will be no player killing and witht he sidekick system, a lower leveled character will be "Super-Boosted" by the higher player...

Again, where is the advantage to the higher level character?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mordakai

Shmanka - Read This Please!

High Level Cap will NOT effect PvP!

This is PvE only! (and world vs world)

Thank you.

Agreed, as there can be no advantage in PvE as there is nothing to have an advantage doing

EternalTempest · Apr 02, 2007, 07:18 PM // 19:18

You do remember that unlimited/high levels don't' apply to the "structured" pvp.

Shmanka · Apr 02, 2007, 07:20 PM // 19:20

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Ernada

What part of "Your PVP characters will automatically be a certain" level do you not understand? So how does that not balance PVP in regards to character level and skill level?

There was no personal attack. Just pointing out the fact that you're contradicting yourself and getting your facts all wrong.

This is my last post because people obviously have not read what I posted earlier and just jump the gun.

Grinding for skills is optional for the usage of them. Grinding for a specific advantage in PvP is different entirely based off statistics. No one wants to gain these levels if they are ridiculous. Ridiculous as in playing a character for 3-4 months on end to be usable.

I am simply pointing this out, I did not declare this is Anet's entire funtion towards GW2 and I never said this entire thing was true or whatever you think you read when its not even typed up.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lonesamurai

You miss one thing... in PvE there is no where you can have an advatage as there will be no player killing and witht he sidekick system, a lower leveled character will be "Super-Boosted" by the higher player... Again, where is the advantage to the higher level character?

Ok PvE aside from the debate you are correct, yet in PvP and the confirmed City of Heroes system causes alot of contradiction as to how a competitive GvG format will come into play. I have not seen confirmation on rolling PvP characters. If there is no rolling of PvP characters how does this system flaw PvP? Tremendously.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mordakai

Shmanka - Read This Please!

High Level Cap will NOT effect PvP!

This is PvE only! (and world vs world)

Thank you.

How does it not affect PvP? Like I pointed out earlier and was mentioned in the article itself on the curve. The level 150 is higher then the 100 in terms of power and ability. If there is a set level on entering GvG then yes your correct. Where is this mentioned? From what I have read there is slight mention of it, nothing concrete or detailed as this portion of the article here.

Loviatar · Apr 02, 2007, 07:40 PM // 19:40

Quote:

Originally Posted by Shmanka

How does it not affect PvP? Like I pointed out earlier and was mentioned in the article itself on the curve. The level 150 is higher then the 100 in terms of power and ability. If there is a set level on entering GvG then yes your correct. Where is this mentioned? From what I have read there is slight mention of it, nothing concrete or detailed as this portion of the article here.

PLEASE READ THIS I WILL EXPLAIN POLITELY

the article i read stated there were no PVP characters as whatever character you take into a formal PVP setting like GVG/PVP ARENA will be boosted to max stats while you are there whatever max stats turn out to be same as everybody else.

level entering has no effect while you PVP.

you have UAS/ITEMS/WEPS/SKILLS all set to top

that is why there is no ballance difference.

hope this clears it up

bamm bamm bamm · Apr 02, 2007, 07:40 PM // 19:40

Quote:

Originally Posted by Alleji

But then how exactly do we deal with limitless levels in PvE? In WoW monsters are very carefully balanced in such a way that you can't reasonably kill anything ~5 levels above you (extreme twinks aside) and anything ~5 levels below you can't kill you unless you afk on it for 10 minutes. So a limitless level cap would equal limitless content to keep a character of extremely high level challenged? That's literally impossible.

You reach lvl 20 at 140k exp. Suppose an average player has a few chars with around 1M exp, which will be lvl 100.

This is incorrect, because you have forgotten to remove the level cap from the level limits*. Remember, the XP required to level is exponential, and in a limitless environment would continue to be. A character with 1 million XP would be level 55 and 1000 XP from level 56. He would need another 35,000 XP to hit 57. The reason I point this out is because the GW 1 curve might not be very steep (it doesn't need to be), but we're talking about GW 2 here, and in a limitless environment it's likely to be steeper. They'll come a point when the XP requirement is so high and the gains so small that it becomes worthless to grind it. Imagine if we had no cap in GW1, but it effectively took a year to hit level 21. Two years for 22. That is, until the first expansion comes out.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Alleji

If anet designs and balances content for lvls 1-100, then what does a character with 15M exp (lvl 500?) do? Solo DoA equivalent of GW2?

15M XP gets you level 221, but good question nonetheless. I imagine they will use the current system, where you can't gain XP if you are much higher than the foe. That way the expansions to GW 2 can contain tougher foes and they can embrace power creep**. They can't do this in GW 1 because it would kill PvP, but the UAX + level harmonization solves this. This is one of THE reasons they want to start again, because the chapter model was holding them back in terms of new challenges. But then I know as much as the next guy.

* CurrentLevel * 600 + 1,400 (from guildwiki) - you have throttled CurrentLevel at 20 in your 'XP required to level' column while at the same time removing the level cap from your current level.

** Edit - This would only happen if levels continued to provide benefits. If they have an inverse curve for, say, skill point equivalents, it's not so much of a problem.

mqstout · Apr 02, 2007, 07:40 PM // 19:40

Yeah. Level 20 cap is one of the big reasons I've stuck with the game. Developing multiple characters, for example, becomes possible with such a player-friendly environment.

The game's biggest sell wasn't "MMORPG without monthly fee". That's only a portion of "online game where time involved does not give the upper hand, and where casual players can still compete and enjoy everything". Both PvE and PvP originally were built on that (except for the lack of UAX). Casual players won't pay monthlies -- they don't get their money's worth.

Lonesamurai · Apr 02, 2007, 07:41 PM // 19:41

Quote:

Originally Posted by Shmanka

Ok PvE aside from the debate you are correct, yet in PvP and the confirmed City of Heroes system causes alot of contradiction as to how a competitive GvG format will come into play. I have not seen confirmation on rolling PvP characters. If there is no rolling of PvP characters how does this system flaw PvP? Tremendously.

Wrong, it was confirmed in the interview that PvP characters would not be lvl based and that the sidekick system is for PvE

going into a pvp zone makes you a set lvl, thats been said and confirmed by gaile and I even talked about it on my show last tuesday

Mordakai · Apr 02, 2007, 07:42 PM // 19:42

Quote:

And so Guild Wars 2 will have that aspect too, in fact we're really highlighting that aspect and making it easier to get into that aspect by saying, there's nothing you have to unlock, you don't have work your character up before they can compete in that aspect of the game. There won't be different character types for roleplaying and PvP, so you won't need to create a PvP character or anything like that. In Guild Wars 2, any character can go into the balanced, competitive PvP matches, and when they do they will have access to the high-end skills for their class like the other players, and they can immediately jump into high-end PvP.

So, I assume they will have a cap in PvP and raise (or lower) people automatically to that cap.

Free Runner · Apr 02, 2007, 07:45 PM // 19:45

We should really make a thread combining all GW2 things titled "Complaints about the game that hasnt even been made yet"

How did Anet break a promise? i never saw any promises made for Guild Wars 2....

The Ernada · Apr 02, 2007, 07:48 PM // 19:48

Quote:

Originally Posted by Free Runner

We should really make a thread combining all GW2 things titled "Complaints about the game that hasnt even been made yet"

How did Anet break a promise? i never saw any promises made for Guild Wars 2....

The main problem is all the people screaming about it because they didnt bother to read the articles or only read half of it. I urge people to at least read the PC Gamer article before screaming your head off.

Darksun · Apr 02, 2007, 07:49 PM // 19:49

Quote:

Originally Posted by Shmanka

I have not seen confirmation on rolling PvP characters. If there is no rolling of PvP characters how does this system flaw PvP? Tremendously.

Wow, dude.. you need a "jump to conclusions" mat.

Quote:

In Guild Wars 2, any character can go into the balanced, competitive PvP matches, and when they do they will have access to the high-end skills for their class like the other players, and they can immediately jump into high-end PvP.

Are you somehow saying that ANET is so stupid that they think someone of level 3 power is balanced against a level 150? They are obviously evening out pvp.

If you haven't read the PC gamer, it's obvious why you are making so many erroneous judgments on GW2. But even Inde summed it up:

Quote:

PvP World vs World combat sounds to be a massive scale capture the flag (AB style?) with no minimum or maximum party size. Big-ass raids that can supposedly take place for weeks on end. At the end, the 'world' will be reset, and it will start again it seems. More a casual version of PvP where you can pop in and out to perform various smaller tasks. Developers will reshuffle the teams into well-balanced match-ups every week or so.

GvG will still be present, as a more balanced form where everyone is on a level playing field.

mqstout · Apr 02, 2007, 07:55 PM // 19:55

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Ernada

I urge people to at least read the PC Gamer article before screaming your head off.

Sorry, releasing the majority of your information in a format that has to be paid for, and only in certain countries at that, is not the way to go. Game magazines are all but dead. And it's a welcomed death.

ss1986v2 · Apr 02, 2007, 08:03 PM // 20:03

Quote:

Originally Posted by mqstout

Sorry, releasing the majority of your information in a format that has to be paid for, and only in certain countries at that, is not the way to go. Game magazines are all but dead. And it's a welcomed death.

ever hear of this new fangled thing called the "interweb"? you can find lots of things on it...

*peeks at QQ forum*

Darksun · Apr 02, 2007, 08:04 PM // 20:04

Quote:

Originally Posted by mqstout

Sorry, releasing the majority of your information in a format that has to be paid for, and only in certain countries at that, is not the way to go. Game magazines are all but dead. And it's a welcomed death.

That's all well and good, but... You're still misinformed until you read it.

vergerefosh · Apr 02, 2007, 08:07 PM // 20:07

Not out yet. Stop whining. The game's not out yet and won't be out for some time. Stop sitting around whining and complaining at the prospect of "ooh, there making a few adjustments". Did you stop to think that they could be improving the game?
Oh noes, the level caps going up. Sure, some people don't like the idea, some people really do, but most people probably aren't going to be too bothered all in all.
It will also help draw people in as quite often you talk to people who've never played GW and then tell them the the max level is 20, they go "20? That's low, in WoW you can get to 60, or 70 with BC, I'm gonna go play that instead"

Stop complaining already. If you really want to whinge and moan, wait until you've had a chance to play in the betas to see what it's like, then start whining and going on and on. And possibly in quite a few cases you'll end up discovering that you were whining for no good reason and that it's actually a good game.
Sure, it may not end up being perfect, but no game ever is, but it'll have enough to keep most people playing and bring more people in, despite any small flaws they may think that it has

The Ernada · Apr 02, 2007, 08:13 PM // 20:13

Quote:

Originally Posted by mqstout

Sorry, releasing the majority of your information in a format that has to be paid for, and only in certain countries at that, is not the way to go. Game magazines are all but dead. And it's a welcomed death.

Inde's post on her thread summed up the article nicely. It even covers the PVP level cap that Shmanka didnt even bother reading before ranting.

dameros · Apr 02, 2007, 08:14 PM // 20:14

I for one don't think Anet really cares if they lose the "veteran" players. Why you say? Simply because I think Guild Wars 2 is aimed at a different type of gamers, hardcore gamers. Guild Wars one PvE is more or less for the casual gamer.

In Guild Wars 2, raising the level cap so drastically, less instances etc etc, will attract a huge amount of people because of the no monthly fee policy.

I think Guilds Wars 2 will be more of a "traditional" style MMO but still offer lots of new mechanics and gameplay aspects. Most people that I have talked to that play WoW said that they won't play Guild Wars 2 because everything is instanced and the level cap is 20. I don't think this is a bad thing but obviously they do.

So if Anet does make Guild Wars with no monthly fees, huge level cap, less instances, it will attract a much larger audience. Guild Wars 2 could be the next "WoW" imo.

Afterall, all Anet really cares about, just like any other business, is making money.

scrinner · Apr 02, 2007, 08:14 PM // 20:14

The fact is, This is for PVE which really doesnt matter since PVE Should be about character development. As long as this isnt affecting pvp (And by that i mean structured) The basic elements of the game remain.

Mordakai · Apr 02, 2007, 08:30 PM // 20:30

Quote:

Originally Posted by dameros

I for one don't think Anet really cares if they lose the "veteran" players. Why you say? Simply because I think Guild Wars 2 is aimed at a different type of gamers, hardcore gamers. Guild Wars one PvE is more or less for the casual gamer.

Anet is not stupid. They will not eliminate their core customer, the casual player. Everything I've read says they will continue to give the most people the most benefits. You want to grind to level 100? Go for it. You'd rather mess around with a bunch of level 20s? You can do that too. Despite the big changes, at it's heart I think Guild Wars will remain fun to play.

(besides, if they really wanted to run off the "veteran player", GW:EN would not even be on the table. That's purely for the veteran player!)